Episode 12 – Patrick Lane: The Art of Listening to Connect with Your Customers

Nirajana Dhumal (00:00)Welcome marketing enthusiasts to another episode of MarTech Cube.

I'm your host, Niranjana, the Senior Communication Executive at MTC (MarTech Cube), and today we're taking a deeper dive into the customer journey and exploring a strategy that shifts the focus from disruptive advertising to genuine connection.

Today’s guest is a distinguished industry leader who seamlessly integrates academic insights with practical marketing strategies.

He is the senior marketing manager at Terakeet, a premier performance marketing partner known for its expertise in own asset optimization, or OAO as they like to call it, who also spearheads demand generation initiatives working closely with sales products and client success teams to drive revenue growth and optimize digital assets for major global brands.

In addition to this, our host for today at Terakeet is also an adjunct professor at Syracuse University where he imparts his marketing acumen to the next generation of professionals.

His previous experience as a marketing supervisor at SRC Inc. further underscores his deep-rooted expertise in the field with Terakeet’s innovative approach to transforming the Owned Digital Assets such as blogs and websites into dynamic performance channel.

Our guest and his team are dedicated to helping brands enhance their online presence and achieve significant business growth.

So join me in welcoming Patrick Lane.

Hi, Patrick.

We are very excited to have you on our podcast today. How are you doing?

Patrick Lane (1:47)I'm doing great Niranjana, it's amazing to be here.

I have to say that is the best, introduction I have ever had and probably will ever have.

So thank you so much for inviting me on the podcast and all your kind words. It's great to be here.

Niranjana Dhumal (2:01) Great!

So before we kick off into our podcast, Pat, our listeners would like to hear more about who Pat Lane is and what's on his plate as of late.

What have you been up to?

Let our listeners catch up on what you've been doing.

Patrick Lane (2:20) Yeah.

So it's, it's been an incredible summer.

I currently have a 2.5-year-old, so he keeps me very busy in addition to all the work.

But as you said, I'm the senior marketing manager at Terakeet, and I'm working with an incredible team right now exploring how we can tell the world kind of what Terakeet is doing to make better connections between brands and their consumers, especially in those moments that matter.

And being the summer, it's a break from teaching, so I am, preparing for the next semester which starts in about a month, and bringing some of our new and exciting OAO concepts into the curriculum.

I teach a content optimization course for public relations students at New House at S U.

So it's, it's very exciting to kind of get them in on the ground floor of like shifting perspective in the marketing and PR world to look at consumer needs first and focusing content creation on those consumer needs rather than, you know, like a, a traditional channel first approach.

So it's, it's been been very exciting, a good summer.

Niranjana Dhumal (3:41) That's, that's nice. But to be honest, we being located in Dubai, it's quite hard for us to suffer the summers over here. So I'm pretty sure I would not be very pleased with the summers.

So, yeah, and like you said about content creation and setting the stage just over here, in terms of content creation, in today's over-saturated marketing landscape, customers are extremely bombarded with mails, emails DMS, basically every form of reach-out that there is.

But what if there was like a way to cut through the noise and directly connect with them?

Niranjana Dhumal (4:24) So today's discussion will revolve around this very concept with the focus on the power of understanding the customer's needs and leveraging search data, the power of listening.

Let's start with addressing the current state of marketing.

Many brands currently seem to be interrupting customers rather than actually giving them the ear or listening to them.

So why do you think that it is crucial to shift this paradigm and how can brands truly understand their target audience's needs and requirements?

Patrick Lane (4:59) Yeah, so I think what you said about interruption marketing is, a great place to start.

We've all had that, that experience where we've gotten an ad or an email or I have, I, I'm writing a post about literal physical mailers, that I've gotten where I'm like, why, why am I getting this?

I don't own this type of car or I don't even speak the language that this ad is in and, and it interrupts our viewing, our listening experience, our browsing experience;

And it's a major problem because brands are reaching the wrong people at the wrong time, you know I'm not even in the customer journey or the customer funnel for some of these brands that are spending money to make a connection with me, and not only is it kind of a waste of money, it's not a good connection.

I'm like, oh, this brand being a marketer doesn't know what they're doing.

But, I think, you know, looking back at the history of marketing, interruption marketing has been for the longest time up until maybe like 2000, that has been the go-to.

And so I think it's very easy for brands to fall into that fall back on it and, and rely on it.

And there is a, there is a time for interruptive ads, but I think that we can do better and, get more efficient with the way we deploy that type of marketing.

And Seth Goden around the two thousands pioneered the idea of permission marketing where we can opt in to receiving promotions.

But how many times have you opted in for a discount code? And then every week you get an update on your sock company or, or you know, whatever, whatever brand.

And so you start getting these tons of emails, I think on Black Friday last year, I got about 80 texts and I was like, what, what is happening?

So I think even the permission marketing channel has, has kind of been turned into this interruption style. There's, there's really only one or two brands where I'm like, and it's usually like individual people where I'm like, please, yes, contact me, let me know what you're doing.

And so the solution to this, that, that we at Terakeet kind of think is the solution is Reception Marketing it's listening to consumer needs.

We think it's the next evolution of those two types of marketing interruption to permission to reception.

Niranjana Dhumal (7:41) Yeah, I completely agree on that.

I mean it's literally on a daily basis like even if you are… so the voice activation or the voice search thing, even if you are saying anything around your phone, then just like that your feed everywhere you go, your feed is just going to be full of, all this unnecessary, I wouldn't say it's unnecessary but then probably someone else is talking about it around your phone and then all of this is, you know, getting up on your feed as well.

Patrick Lane (8:14) Yeah, exactly.

And I think, you know, if you, let's say you are talking to a friend about, like a new coat or something or a new jacket and then all of a sudden you start seeing ads for all these jackets and you're like, I'm, I was not even, I was wondering if they wanted my old jacket.

It was, I'm not buying one, but if you could fit, if you could find the people who are actively in the market for a new jacket, then those ads might be useful.

So it's all about finding out what your consumer and what your audience actually needs wants and what their intent is when they, they go online or, or somewhere to find answers or find products, That's you, you mentioned the, using search data for that and, that is kind of the, the area where we think you can get the most honest feedback from your consumers.

I think we are as people when we search in Google, we're probably more honest than we are any time in our lives, where we're, we're searching for answers and we need help.

And so we, we go turn to Google, we turn to search and every time, an audience member or a consumer searches for something they're sending out a signal that brands can receive and then interpret and say, OK, is this person looking to buy, a car or are they just looking to see what kind of car they like?

And they're not ready to buy yet?

And when you can start to pull that data and interpret that data, you start to get into being able to bucket people by not just who they are not like traditional demographics, but you can bucket them by intent and by need and then serve those needs better and ultimately make a better connection.

Niranjana Dhumal (10:13) Yeah.

Yeah, like I mean, I was just about to come to the point of using search as a signal.

Valuable insights are of course hidden in the online searches depending upon we try to be as precise as we can when putting anything on the search engines. But then anyhow you get everything that is related to that particular topic on your feed, having said that can you elaborate on how analyzing the search behavior can actually help the brands connect with the customers at the right moment with the right message or with the right kind of content?

Patrick Lane (10:52) Yeah, absolutely.

So, my team specifically at Terakeet has been working on these monthly industry deep dives that we do where we kind of look at data from search and we see what consumers are, are asking for what the needs are and then we see what brands are actively ser serving those needs and, and answering those questions the most effectively.

And it's been, it's been very interesting.

So the way we do it is we look at raw consumer search queries and we start to bucket them

So it's like thousands of queries. Maybe we'll take a, a swath of like 6000 queries and we start to bucket them into what we'll call user or consumer intent buckets.

And so that creates a buyer persona, essentially, it's based on intent or need rather than those demographics that I mentioned.

And so an example of this, that we, we just did in a, a brand breakdown, that's what we call them was for home insurance.

And we found that in the home insurance space, you might have a bucket of people who are looking for custom coverage where people are looking for nontraditional or specialty policies.

Maybe they have a $5 million home that they need to insure.

And that's, you know, not something a traditional policy might do or so they're looking for specialty policies or you might have a cost conscious bucket where people are most interested in, in costs like I just want the cheapest insurance and I don't care what's covered or they might be considering the value of the plan where they're like, I'm willing to pay a little bit to get the value that I need.

That's still the intent behind that is still I'm cost conscious, but I do have certain needs that need to be met.

So once you start to understand the need buckets, you can start to create owned assets or content on your website that are optimized to connect with those specific consumers.

So if you're looking at the cost conscious bucket, you can create content around like why are home insurance policies?

X amount of dollars or like what are the things you need?

Bare minimum for an effective home insurance policy?

That's not going to like leave you out in the cold at the end of the day.

And so then when people are looking for that specific content to, to or those specific answers to solve their problems or to give them more information in their research, you start to show up, your brand is showing up every time they have a need.

And every time that happens, your brand is making a connection and it's building trust, it's building a bit more equity.

And ultimately, you're building a better relationship with that consumer so that when they're ready, when motivated to, to convert, they'll say, well, you know, Allstate say has been really great in giving me all the information I need and I trust them and I'm gonna go to Allstate because I know that they can serve my needs based on everything I've learned from them.

And, and coincidentally Allstate was one of the brands that was doing the best in, in our research that, that we found they were answering consumer questions left and right.

So that's, that's kind of the, the, the first level of owned acid optimization.

You know, it's, it's figuring out what your consumers need and you can do that, you can do that through anything.

You can just ask people what they need.

But we think the best way to do it is and the best way to do it at scale is kind of turning to search which we call the most honest focus group.

And it's, it's kind of like an always on data source which is super helpful, right?

Niranjana Dhumal (15:01) I actually hadn't quite considered this perspective before that, that's something that's gonna help me with my work as well.

And your answer actually answered the entire OAO framework that Terakeet has been going on. I wanted to understand our listeners would definitely like to hear the impact of OAO on brand performance.

So at Taraki, you guys champion the Owned Asset Optimization strategy, let's say a brand takes their website, their social media, basically all the good stuff in terms of content and really optimizes them like to the core.

How does that translate into cold numbers?

I mean, the numbers, the cost per acquisition or the high revenue, maybe even, you know, grabbing a bigger slice of the market share pie.

Patrick Lane (15:54) Yeah.

So we have a couple examples of that. One is on our website that I can, I can throw out a couple numbers when I, when I pull it up here. But one kind of broad example that I like to start with is in a, a very highly competitive high consumer consideration industry, we had a, a client who was able to leverage consumer data to not just optimize like the top performing pages that were already converting.

They were able to do some some conversion rate optimization with us to help those convert better and make sure they were really answering the the consumer needs.

But those were already bringing customers in. What we were able to do is create.

I think it was around 1.4000 new assets that were answering very specific consumer questions and maybe only converting 1 to 3 people a month that had those specific needs.

But now those 1.4000 new assets are providing 43% of the brand's total online conversions.

So that's a huge piece of the pie that if they didn't have those assets converting, even though they're small conversion numbers, they didn't have them, they just would have been left untapped.

So by kind of having the brand commit to investing in those assets and prioritizing the consume the very specific consumer needs.

They were able to grow market share and bring in more people for a lower cost and they were increasing revenue with while at the same time, decreasing their cost per acquisition, I wear retailer that we worked with leading eyewear retailer brand.

We were able to achieve eight X ROI with the content we created, we worked to optimize a lot of their product pages over you know, years and years of our partnership and we also created a, a brand hub where we were almost like a blog where we were creating content that answered questions like you know, what does this thing me, what does this notation mean on my prescription for my glasses?

Like what is it means?

Left eye, right eye, the these kind of things and through that we were able to achieve, I think it was about 62% lower cost per acquisition, increased revenue by 280% and increase, ultimately increase trans transactions across the site by 100 and 56%.

So the the numbers are really, really compelling when you start to compare them to other channels.

But the thing I love about OAO and, and my team is doing a little bit of research into this now to quantify it.

But when you focus on optimizing your own assets, those assets are going to connect better, they're going to show up in more places they're gonna convert better.

But then you can also point your traditional advertising, your paid advertising, your social media, your everything else that you kind of don't control as much as your website.

You can point all of that back to those assets that are now optimized and you start to see incremental improvements everywhere across all of your marketing, which is, is really, really cool. And I think shows the power of an owned asset optimization strategy beyond just one channel.

It's focusing on the asset first. It's focusing on the message first and the consumer first.

Niranjana Dhumal (19:41) OK. That's, that's right.

So Pat, those were quite the numbers you've put up there. I mean, really impressive.

Our listeners would also like to know in terms of content distribution.

So once you have a valuable content, what are the best channels and methods for distributing it to ensure it reaches the right audience at the right time?

Patrick Lane (20:08:) It's a great question. And I think the answer is probably going to be dependent on the brand and their audience to to some extent. But what we've seen is that search is a massive channel of untapped potential. So whenever you're optimizing your owned assets, the pages on your website, blog posts on your website, you're optimizing those to show up for different search queries and you know what your audience and your target consumers are, are asking because you've done kind of your, your search data analysis and you've pulled insights out of that.

So I, I like to call that optimizing for connection, those are showing up in search, but then you're also optimizing those to convert. And another, another channel that at least we at at ta you know, in the marketing team kind of views is social.

So we'll take those owned assets and we'll take the message out of them and we'll atomize it across all of our social channels.

We'll, we'll talk about it on podcasts like this. We will talk about it in social posts that we ourselves are, are putting out there. We'll talk about it on our brand social profiles and then we'll take it to email and we'll send out to our email list, the brand breakdown and different insights.

So I think once you have that foundation of optimized owned assets, everything you do kind of builds on top of that and you can pick and choose the right channels for your audience to increase your reach.

And, and start hitting more of the, the right people kind of at the right time.

We have a, we have a, a model or a framework called the MACH-6.

It's on our website.

People can take a look at it and it kind of shows the hierarchy of the different levels of control. So we talk about owned assets, managed assets and leveraged assets.

An example of owned is your website, something you own and control fully, something that's managed would be your social media.

You, kind of control the message, but you don't control the platform.

Twitter could shut down tomorrow. And if you've built your entire business on Twitter or X, now, you would be in trouble because the platform is gone.

And then leveraged would be something like you know, influencer marketing where you're engaging with influencers and you don't really control what they say about your brand.

Maybe you can influence it a little bit. But as I, I like to think as you go up the, the levels of the mock six, you lose a little bit of control, but you may gain a little bit of reach.

But it, by focusing on your own assets, you can also gain more reach, you know, by having more content joining your website and showing up in more places.

So it's kind of a balancing act of control versus reach.

And once you know, where your consumers are, you can atomize your optimized assets to reach them in different channels.

Niranjana Dhumal (23:30) Right. Right.

Basically, it's all about the balance. I would completely agree with that.

And speaking of balance of balancing the short-term and the long-term goals.

How can brands balance the need for short-term results and the long-term benefits of building trust and connections with their audiences?

Patrick Lane (23:53) Yeah.

So this is, this is something we've talked about a lot.

It's, I think it's really important to look at your website and your owned assets like an investment.

You're, you're investing time and money into them to optimize them.

And the nice thing is that once you invest the money into them, you now you they're optimized, right?

And they will stay optimized for a period of time, maybe not forever, but they are, you know, optimized to meet those consumer needs until those consumer needs change.

So then they need to be re-optimized, but it's not like you know, paid advertising where if you stop spending the traffic, the conversions all just go away immediately.

If you kind of move on to optimize other things, then those assets that you've previously optimized continue to perform even though you're not touching them because they're meeting consumers along their, their journey and they kind of it, it increases the body of work that you have.

So you're, you're meeting that maybe you have previously optimized top of funnel content and now you're building out your bottom of funnel content and those things are working together even though you're not actively spending or touching the top of funnel content right now.

But for the short term, you know, it takes a while to get those optimizations in place and to, to see results from those optimizations in the short term.

You know, that's where I think you can like mix in your traditional marketing spend, your, your paid advertising, that's probably only going to get better as you optimize more and more content.

So you're, you're making your entire marketing stack more efficient.

And the, the, the thing that I think is really interesting about search data is that you're getting those like focus groups, the, the, the always on focus group from Google, you're getting the information from that focus group all the time.

So it's not just like a snapshot in time.

That's now three months, six months a year out of date, it's constantly updated and that helps you that those insights help you optimize your other channels as you're waiting for your your investment kind of to, to compound and, and ultimately return on your spend.

Niranjana Dhumal (26:35) Right, Right.

That, that's a great point.

It, I'm pretty sure it aligns with the majority of our audiences and of course, the majority of our challenges that even we face at our end.

So a fact that was really a very fascinating exploration of customer centric marketing and understanding such behavior and using the OAO framework, empowers brands to move beyond interruption and build genuine connections with their audience.

Thank you for this and we are, we really appreciate you sharing your insights with us.

Is there, is there anything you would like to advise to our listeners, any, any parting thoughts or any parting codes?

Patrick Lane (27:24) Yeah. one thing I've been thinking of lately mainly because I feel I feel that very strongly as of late is that everyone, especially online is just craving authentic connection. The I, I think the brands that focus on creating those moments of real authentic, helpful connection just even if it's, you know, you come to a website and you read how to fix something or you get a little bit more information than you had before. It, just helps like create this relationship that is built on trust and that can be a long-term sustainable relationship that's valuable to both the brand and the consumer.

So the, the advice I would give to everybody is is focus on authenticity, focus on listening to your audience and what they need and then just providing real value in, in every interaction that they have with your brand.

Niranjana Dhumal (28:28) Absolutely.

I definitely agree with that. Listeners, you might want to remember this, that the key to marketing success lies in authenticity, and in listening by understanding your customer's needs and providing valuable content at the right time, you can build trust and foster long-lasting relations.

We hope today's episode has provided you with the valuable insights.

And we really, again, thank Patrick Lane. We really appreciate you taking time for us, Patrick. Thank you so much.

Patrick Lane (29:05) Thank you so much for having me Niranjana. I appreciate it.

Niranjana Dhumal (29:08) Yeah, stay tuned for more in-depth marketing discussions on MarTech Cube.

This is your host Niranjana, encouraging you to keep pushing your boundaries and building meaningful connections with your audience.

Until next time!

In this insightful discussion, Patrick Lane, Senior Marketing Manager at Terakeet, dives into customer-centric marketing and the importance of leveraging search data for optimizing owned assets. He explains Terakeet's Owned Asset Optimization (OAO) strategy, emphasizing the shift from interruption marketing to reception marketing. Patrick highlights the power of listening to consumer needs through search data and creating content that answers specific questions, which builds trust and drives conversions. He shares examples of successful OAO implementations, resulting in increased ROI and lower cost per acquisition. Patrick also discusses the balance between short-term results and long-term benefits and the importance of authenticity and providing real value in every interaction.

Key highlights include:

1. From Disruption to Connection:
   • Transition from interruption marketing to permission marketing, and now to reception marketing.
   • The need for brands to listen to and understand their audience's needs rather than interrupting them.
2. Search Data as a Signal:
   • Utilizing search behavior to gain insights into consumer intent and needs.
   • The concept of "Reception Marketing" at Terakeet, which leverages search data to create content that resonates with consumers.
3. Impact of OAO on Brand Performance:
   • How optimizing owned digital assets like websites and blogs can lead to significant increases in conversions and revenue.
   • Examples of successful OAO implementations, including an eyewear retailer achieving 8x ROI and a major insurance client seeing 43% of total online conversions from newly created content.
4. Content Distribution:
   • The importance of distributing optimized content through appropriate channels such as search engines, social media, and email.
   • The MACH-6 framework, which helps balance control and reach across different marketing channels.
5. Balancing Short-term and Long-term Goals:
   • Viewing website and content optimization as an investment that continues to provide returns over time.
   • Combining short-term strategies like paid advertising with long-term investments in owned assets for sustained growth.
6. The Importance of Authenticity:
   • The value of creating authentic, helpful connections with customers to build trust and long-term relationships.